Combining chess and poker as a way to get poker tournaments public and legal.

[richardhutnik]

This is being discussed, but let me give this as a way for people to see if you can get poker played all over. Instead of Chess, you could put in checkers or another abstract strategy game (instead of chess) to handle it as follows:
Follow the approach I laid out where you play the poker first, to win a chance at the final table, and enough of the entrance fee to make it worthwhile. Then everyone who lost plays poker and the top player then faces off at the winner of the chess tournament, for an equal prize money.

You would target POKER players as the main people to play, not CHESS players. You pitch this as a way to get poker to be played legally all over, which is the hook. I would work with the local law enforcement to make sure this comes off correctly, and you would want to have them present to make sure the chess isn't a false front to merely poker.

People who have slammed this idea are CHESS players. Well, they aren't the ones going to put money up for this.

Just my take here. Anyone want to run with this? Idea here is to get the courts to rule this format is perfectly legal, which will then undermine all the laws that are blocking poker going public. As an added bonus, abstract strategy games WILL get a boost, and more players playing them.

Phase two for the abstract strategy enthusiast is to eventually decouple the abstract strategy games from the poker, and get people interested in playing those. The key is to have a REAL game with some strategic depth to it, not like tic-tac-toe, for example. Connect 4 could possibl work, or even something light, but it ISN'T to just be a front to have poker played.

Please comment here.

[chessandpoker]

I'm not entirely certain, but your approach seems 100% legal to me. in the format you described Poker isn't actually being played for money, it's more of a qualifying process (did I understand that correctly?). I can't see any way that it could be misconstrued as illegal in my mind. the only hangup would be that any players knocked out during the Poker phase absolutely could not win money or it would be entering the dark gray area of playing Poker with a false front of Chess. this will likely be a turn off to the Poker players you'd be looking to attract, since most of them will list Poker as their strongest game.

there might also be a fairly obvious way around these troubles. sponsorship and/or membership. if an outside sponsor put up the prize money (as with Chess tournaments), in lieu of players buying-in themselves to create a prize pool (as with Poker tournaments), you could arrange the formats in any manner you wished. a Poker-only example of this is with CardPlayer.com's Spade Club. their Poker interface was recently released with players paying a monthly fee to gain access to any and all of the tournaments available instead of buying in to various tournaments of various buy-ins as is the case with any other Poker site. Cash prizes are made available by advertisements and various sponsorships. 100% legal as evidenced by the ability to sign-up to the site through any US bank and have it processed successfully.

I'd love to hear more about these hybrid tournament configurations and your thoughts on them.

and you're right, Tic Tac Toe isn't a competitive game since several people have went to the trouble of figuring out the optimal strategy for Tic Tac Toe (http://www.chessandpoker.com/tic_tac_toe_strategy.html) but don't forget that Connect Four is also a solved game! I wonder if a strategy guide for that game is around the corner....hmmmmmmmm.....:whistle:

[richardhutnik]

The way I have proposed this is as follows:
1. You start off with chess (you could also have backgammon or different games to going). Winner of the chess tournament, gets some prize money and a seat in a small poker tournament at the same location (this is the last phase).
2. Everyone who didn't win at chess, ends up a large poker tournament. You can also award more starting chips if you do better.
3. The winner of this poker tournament then faces off against the person who won the chess tournament. The winner of this face off gets more prize money.

You could also have multiple qualifying games going on at same time. Say, divide the pool of players up into three sections: Chess, backgammon and checkers. In this case, all players who lost from all games get dumped into the general second poker pool. All winners would then go on to the final table, and the poker tournament offers people a second chance to get to the final table.

What this approach is meant to do is appeal to BOTH players of poker, and players of other abstract strategy games. The poker approach insures enough prize money in there, and the chess acts as a way to have poker played legally. You award prize money greater than what is paid in for the playing of chess, so it ends up a tournament unto itself, and motivates people to play chess. The player who is good at poker, but sucks at chess still would participate, because there is money to be made playing the poker.

Please let me know if this is a bit more clear than mud :-)

[TheNic]

Hey guys let me pose something here.

Chessandpoker i have been trying to send you emails regarding my site along with some form of event. Have you got them becuse i get no reply.

This discussion is good and some great ldeas are happening here.

My idea was to have both chess and poker, and i am sure the combination can be worked out.

Heres what i was originally going to do. On my site i promote poker online. Being said that i have given out players free bankrolls, of which some are chess players.

Generally they are good so its a good start.

I have another type of system where rooms pay me to get a player to deposit.

When they deposit and its not alot 20 to 25 dollars i would make an advertsing fee.

With this money i proposed to put into a fund for prizes and pay for an event.

My problem ws in Canada here people are not interested so much as they dont want to chage up the game.

But richard came up with some good ideas..

I live in canda so having a live game would be great i have the equiptment the location and all people to run event i just need the sign ups.

I would pay for the event, and refund players deposits.. Problem most players just will not play poker, so the idea is to get poker players to join in and play chess so to speak.

Well i have another idea, try and do it online. Pick 2 sites, one poker and one chess site.

the poker site i can set up with a table for all the players to join in and play no problem there. All the depositors would automatically be put in event.

The chess portion we could do on FICS or another free chess site.. we would have to organizer each player to play each other at a given time.. and report back the score.

We all have site and we can do iton any one of them... I was hoping to have at least 10-20 players...

We can video tape it... and if it works out post and see if live events can come of it...

I have 3 canadian players playing now testing out the sites and i will ask how they like it.. i have a membership of 400 players i can email them asking them if thewy would play but many of them already have an account..

the idea is to get the poker rooms to pay for it based on new customers.. etc

One of the hardest thgings is getting people to reply back, they lie ideas but wont move on them...

Any ideas from any of you two guys??

If we could get at least 20 players from either of our sites we can have an event and pay for a good prize fund..