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  #1  
Old 05-30-2007, 04:40 PM
darrenkarp darrenkarp is offline
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Default Rubik's Cube Solution Problem?

Hi all,

It may appear that step four of the solution is incorrect as it seems to mess up the cube. Can someone please confirm whether I'm mad or where I may be going wrong?

TIA
Darren
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  #2  
Old 06-01-2007, 01:06 AM
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Welcome to the forums Darren!

Could you explain where you're getting stuck at on step #4?
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Old 06-01-2007, 01:29 AM
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Hey Darren welcome to the forum. Hope to see you around
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Old 06-01-2007, 06:23 AM
darrenkarp darrenkarp is offline
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Hi,

Thanks for the reply. It's not a case necessarily of getting stuck on step four as the instructions are very good. Its just if I use either of the swtich moves the rest of the cube gets messed up. I've tried this many times and its becoming very frustrating.

Any clues?
Darren
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  #5  
Old 06-01-2007, 02:12 PM
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Is your cube correct up to step #4? I went back through the process with both the new (25th anniversary cube) and old (classic, different coloring arrangements) and the algorithms worked on both. here's a checklist:

1. make sure the cube is correct after step #3. it should look like the mini cube at the top of the example, with the top two layers completely solved.

2. at the start of step #4, we actually flip the cube upside down so that the previously solved top layer becomes the new bottom layer.

3. then, we perform the appropriate algorithm from the front face of the cube.

you can actually do either of the algorithms as many times as you like and the bottom two layers of the cube will come back together as they started. sometimes rubiks cubers have had problems with the guide only to find out they had taken the cube about years earlier and put it back together incorrectly, but I don't think that's the case here (otherwise, I bet the cube would be scrambled up after even the first step). if all else fails, you could post a picture of your cube before you're starting step #4 and a pic of the cube immediately after performing an algorithm.

i guess this is why they call it the 'frustration cube'
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Old 06-01-2007, 02:18 PM
darrenkarp darrenkarp is offline
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Hi,

Yes the cube is exact as per the instructions to step 3. Then I turn it over so blue is on the bottom. If I perform either algorithm the two correct layers get messed up. Not messed up badly but still messed up. Do I need to perform the algorithm more than once?

Thanks
Darren
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  #7  
Old 06-01-2007, 03:12 PM
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Nope, just once. The red face is the front of our cube in the guide, with the new top scrambled layer being green (with the green center) to begin Step #4. Here's a text version of the algorithm:

Switch One and Two
(from the front face perspective)

1. Left column up.
2. Top row right.
3. Left column down.
4. Front face right (clockwise).
5. Top row left.
6. Front face left (counterclockwise).
7. Left column up.
8. Top row left.
9. Left column down.
10. Top row left.
11. Top row left again.

Switch One and Three
(from the front face perspective)

1. Top row left.
2. Left column up.
3. Top row right.
4. Left column down.
5. Front face right (clockwise).
6. Top row left.
7. Front face left (counterclockwise).
8. Left column up.
9. Top row left.
10. Left column down.
11. Top row left.

Remember that the front face of the cube is all 9 cubies that make up the front of the cube from our perspective, which are to be turned clockwise or counterclockwise as indicated all at once. I'm really perplexed as to why it isn't working for you, so try this method out and let me know how it works!
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Old 06-01-2007, 04:14 PM
darrenkarp darrenkarp is offline
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sorry guys but guess I'll resign the fact that I'm an idiot. Still messes up the cube for me.
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  #9  
Old 06-01-2007, 07:39 PM
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bah! you can solve it. just walk us step-by-step through everything you're doing. type out a list as you do it, and if you can post a picture of your cube. once you make it through this step you're home free!
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  #10  
Old 12-21-2008, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenkarp View Post
Hi all,

It may appear that step four of the solution is incorrect as it seems to mess up the cube. Can someone please confirm whether I'm mad or where I may be going wrong?

TIA
Darren
I can confirm that step 4 is incorrect. Tried both algorithms many times and always end up with 1 of the bottom corners out of place in the "switch 1 & 2" algorithm and 1 bottom corner and 1 middle layer piece out of place in the "switch 1 & 3" algorithm
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  #11  
Old 12-22-2008, 12:59 PM
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Step 4 is indeed correct, and will perform the necessary arrangements for that step. make sure you are using the original guide at http://www.chessandpoker.com/rubiks-cube-solution.html (sometimes the guide is "featured" on other sites and the display is messed up, cropping off some of the algorithm) and that you understand all of the move notations. One move that commonly confuses players is the looping arrow notation, which indicates that you will turn the entire front face (all nine cubies from the front perspective) the the right or left depending on the notation.

it works fine for me if you have any further questions please let us know!
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  #12  
Old 12-22-2008, 04:13 PM
bvandrasik bvandrasik is offline
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Thanks. I just tried again with the same results. I appreciate the help and REALLY want this solution to work, because I think it is the same solution and annotation I learned as a kid (from "You Can do the Cube"?). Are you sure the initial orientation is correct (completed blue face on the bottom and red face toward you) or there is not a move missing (it seems to me there should be an even number of moves)

Thanks!
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  #13  
Old 12-22-2008, 04:48 PM
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Ok, this is perplexing me! I'll walk you through Step #4 and see where we're getting off course. I've done the algorithm for both switches approximately 1mil times so it has to be my explanation that is the problem

Your cube should have the completed Blue face on the bottom, the bottom two layers fully solved, the Red face as the front and a mixed up Green top. Turn only the top row around until the Red-Green-Yellow corner cubie is at Position #1 in the graphic (the upper right-hand corner of the cube).

Let's now do the Switch One and Two maneuver and follow the movement of the Red-Green-Yellow cubie. Perform each step yourself and compare the location of the Red-Green-Yellow cubie (or whichever cubie colors you're tracking) to mine. Ready!

Switch One and Two
(from the front face perspective)


1. Left column up.

This didn't move the Red-Green-Yellow cubie yet, it's still in the same spot at Position 1. Just the left column moved up, temporarily breaking up the finished bottom two layers.

2. Top row right.

Now we've moved the top row right, which moved the target Red-Green-Yellow cubie to the back-right corner, Position 3 in the graphic.

3. Left column down.

The target Red-Green-Yellow cubie didn't move this time either, but the left column went back down, although the bottom two layers are still messed up.

4. Front face right (clockwise).

No movement for our target cubie again. The front face gets turned to the right, but our target cubie is still in Position three at the back-right corner.

5. Top row left.

Ok, when we turn the top row to the left we return our target cubie back to it's original location at Position 1. However, the cube is now prepared for the switch!

6. Front face left (counterclockwise).

And there it is! Turning the front face of the cube to the left moves our target cubie into it's new home at Position 2. But since the rest of the cube is still jumbled up, we'll need to do some more work.

7. Left column up.

First, we have to move the left column up, which moves our target cubie to the back-left corner at Position 4 for just a moment.

8. Top row left.

And after this it gets moved again to Position 3!

9. Left column down.

While this doesn't move our target cubie, it does restore the bottom two layers, which are now fully solved again.

10. Top row left.
11. Top row left again.

And there you have it! Our target Red-Green-Yellow cubie has been transferred from Position 1 to Position 2 (although probably not yet finished), swapping places with it's partner AND the bottom layers are still fully solved. woot!

Did this advice help you out?
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Old 12-22-2008, 05:02 PM
bvandrasik bvandrasik is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chessandpoker View Post
Ok, this is perplexing me! I'll walk you through Step #4 and see where we're getting off course. I've done the algorithm for both switches approximately 1mil times so it has to be my explanation that is the problem

Let's do the Switch One and Two and follow the movement of the cubie in Position 1. Write down the color combination of this cubie to aide in remembering it.

In our example it will be the Red-Green-Yellow cubie starting out in Position #1 which needs to be switched over to Position #2 in the graphic. Perform each step yourself and compare the location of the Red-Green-Yellow cubie (or whichever cubie colors you're tracking) to mine. Ready!

Switch One and Two
(from the front face perspective)


1. Left column up.

This didn't move the Red-Green-Yellow cubie yet, it's still in the same spot. Just the left column moved up, temporarily breaking up the finished bottom two layers.

2. Top row right.

Now we've moved the top row right, which moved the target cubie to the back-right corner, or Position 3 in the graphic.

3. Left column down.

The target Red-Green-Yellow cubie didn't move this time either, but the left column went back down, although the bottom two layers are still messed up.

4. Front face right (clockwise).

No movement for our target cubie again. The front face gets turned to the right, but our target cubie is still in Position three at the back-right corner.

5. Top row left.

Ok, when we turn the top row to the left we return our target cubie back to it's original location. However, the cube is now prepared for the switch!

6. Front face left (counterclockwise).

And there it is! Turning the front face of the cube to the left moves our target cubie into it's new home at Position 2. But since the rest of the cube is still jumbled up, we'll need to do some more work.

7. Left column up.

First, we have to move the left column up, which moves our target cubie to the back-left corner at Position 4 for just a moment.

8. Top row left.

And after this it gets moved again to Position 3!

9. Left column down.

While this doesn't move our target cubie, it does restore the bottom two layers, which are now fully solved again.

10. Top row left.
11. Top row left again.

There you have it! Our target Red-Green-Yellow cubie has been transferred from Position 1 to Position 2, swapping places with it's partner AND the bottom layers are still fully solved. woot!

Did this advice help you out?
YES! problem solved! Revealed in the second move - I was misunderstanding your graphical annotation and moving the top layer in the opposite direction. I was taking the arrow pointing right to mean clockwise when looking down on the cube. Thanks again for the time.
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  #15  
Old 12-22-2008, 05:13 PM
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you're welcome. happy solving!
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  #16  
Old 01-21-2010, 04:36 PM
shayna1014 shayna1014 is offline
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Default problem with step 4.

I am 100% with you. It seems as though there is definitely something wrong with the algorithm written in step 4. After completing the algorithm, the two completed levels get messed up - every time!
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  #17  
Old 01-21-2010, 04:47 PM
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does the front for step 4 have to be the red side? or should it be any side so that the ones that need to be switched are in the correct position?
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  #18  
Old 01-21-2010, 06:37 PM
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Default step 4

I figured out the problem. When the uppermost arrow is pointing to the right, it does not mean to turn the upper level clockwise, rather it means to turn it counterclockwise. That is where my mistake was. The upper level arrows can be confusing, for some reason. If you think of it and notate it as clockwise or counter clockwise, it seems to make a lot more sense and works!
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  #19  
Old 01-21-2010, 09:36 PM
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cool, glad I could help!
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  #20  
Old 03-11-2010, 03:11 AM
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Default Solution Works

When I try the solution posted on the site it works. I did it a couple times with success. Then the last time I did it it got all messed up at the same place, Step 4. I kept trying it and it kept getting messed up. So, after several attempts, I didn't try to get the corners and edge placed exactly right. I just got to the point where I would do Step 4 and skipped to Step 5. There were enough of them arranged so I could use Step 5, and from there on was able to solve with the remaining steps. It may be that it worked by chance, but if you're still having problems it might be worth a try. It's fun when you can solve the cube.
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